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: Potable water for the Batanes community in Arenill
Discussion Forum
Local capacity questions
By Blue Planet Network Posted on Fri 18 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
You state that are 3 local capacities being built:
1. Organizational: by becoming part of the Canas board how is any local capacity enhanced? Will there be a representative from Batanes? Will they be elected? How is the community better organized?
2. Environmental: if Batanes is dependant on Canas water sources, how will they be able to protect the water sources? Who will? Are Canas water sources not protected? In addition, does the Canas water source have the capacity to handle Batanes demands?
3. Economic-financial: users are committed to pay tariffs. Have the tariffs been determined - what are they? Do they just have to pay the Canas board? Or they also have a local fund to manage local repairs? In this case they will need to organize a committee locally.
It is not clear who will own, operate, and maintain the system: both the local distribution and the long pipe from Canas to Batanes.
Please clarify - thank you.
Local capacity questions
By CARE Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Q -It is not clear who will own, operate, and maintain the system: both the local distribution and the long pipe from Canas to Batanes.
A - There will be only one Water Board, and after the term of the current board expires, it may be made up of users from any of the three communities.
The Water Board will hire any operators that are needed to provide proper maintenance and to operate the system. Depending on the number of operators hired and other costs, the rates will need to be revised periodically so that they cover the true costs of the system.
Project Budget
By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Fri 18 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
It would be easier to evaluate this project if more financial material was available. What are the ratios of admin to actual construction costs?; what are the construction material costs?; skilled labor costs; etc; Will water be delivered to the home or will this be a public water station project? Could we see the hydraulics of the main line? What is the consumption per day / per person? Is there a guarantee from the water supplier of sufficient water to supply a 20 year growth rate?
Project Budget
By CARE Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
In the detailed budget (which we hope to provide later today), one can get a clear idea of the costs of materials, technical personnel, transportation, and others. The water system includes a household connection, and the daily demand has been calculated at 80 liters per person per day; each family has an average of 5 members, so the basic per-family consumption rate would be 12 cubic meters per month, for two dollars (current tariff).
Current water situation and local water system possibility
By Blue Planet Network Posted on Fri 18 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Do you have any data on the current water situation? Has there been any testing of the water to see what the contamination is? Can measures be taken to stop the contamination (be it agro-chemicals or biological wastes)?
Is there any quantity issues from the local spring? It would be nice to get some sense of the layout (location of community, water source, and sources of water regeneration and pollution).
If there is no quantity issue (or its solvable), wouldn't a better project be to protect the local spring from contamination and use the rainy season to recharge groundwater and the source? This would lead to a more independent system and then the community would end up developing local capacity to manage and maintain this system.
Current water situation and local water system possibility
By CARE Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Do you have any data on the current water situation? Has there been any testing of the water to see what the contamination is? Can measures be taken to stop the contamination (be it agro-chemicals or biological wastes)?
The Batanes system will be an extension of the system of the community of Cañas, and as such has a treatment plant that has quick filtration units, slow filtration, disinfection and a reserve tank, in addition at the water intake site accessories have been designed to facilitate the clearing of leaves, branches and other plant material.
The water captured is from a spring and is in good condition at the source, with the treatment included in the plant the community is assured of having excellent service and quality.
Is there any quantity issues from the local spring? It would be nice to get some sense of the layout (location of community, water source, and sources of water regeneration and pollution).
The community is located in the rural area of the Arenillas canton, some 40 kilometers from the closest towns. In this region we can still talk about natural resources in good condition, the source is excellent and high-quality, the surrounding areas still have a significant amount of vegetation which must be conserved. The water source has at least 3 liters/second and the real need to provide an adequate service is a total of 1 liter / second.
If there is no quantity issue (or its solvable), wouldn't a better project be to protect the local spring from contamination and use the rainy season to recharge groundwater and the source? This would lead to a more independent system and then the community would end up developing local capacity to manage and maintain this system.
The source is charged throughout the year, in the summer the reduction in the water level is minimal.
Re: Current water situation and local water system possibility
By Blue Planet Network Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Thanks for the replies.
If the Cañas rural water source is fine and uncontaminated and recharges itself, how come the Batanes sources are contaminated so much? From the description they don't appear to be able to restore, recharge (and ultimately decontaminate) their local water source. Are they really using that much agro-chemicals?
From my viewpoint, it would be much better to create a local, decentralized system that can be owned by the community, rather than creating a dependency. It may not be possible, but i would like to know that that approach was examined.
Re: Current water situation and local water system possibility
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
Batanes in the future hopes to receive its water supply from the Cañas system, whose source is in excellent shape. Currently, Batanes takes water from nearby rivers which are polluted with agrochemicals, in addition the pipelines of Batanes' old system are totally deteriorated and cause losses and contamination.
The initial study carried out by the local government of Arenillas considered the communities of Cañas , El Triunfo and Batanes as a regional system, and this is the way in which the country will work in the future. The Batanes system is just a second stage of a regional system that covers the three communities mentioned.
Care's Budget
By Project Well Posted on Sat 19 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
It seems too many questions are already asked. I think one of the goals is to spend most fund in the field, amongst the needy and least on administration and other costs. Detail on expenses will be highly appreciated. According to Care's budget cost per capita is USD164 versus USD30 as per BPR's last year's objective. Isn't that a bit too high?
Care's Budget
By CARE Posted on Wed 23 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Hello All - your questions are noted. We had asked the field to provide something quickly so they gave us a concept note. We have sent the questions back to the field - unfortunately there is a delay because they need to translate to Spanish and then translate responses back to English. Appreciate your patience.
Care's Budget
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
Please see details above as well as a new attachment on the project description page that has the budget in an easier to read format.
Care's Budget
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
The cost per capita is justifiable for the following reasons: 1) the intervention includes technical, social, environmental, organizational and educational efforts to ensure a sustainable system; 2) the distances to Batanes and the roads on which one must travel cause some increase in costs; 3) Compared to last year, construction materials have gone up considerably in price throughout the country because of the generalized inflation; 4) The other factor is that the number of users is quite small (150), since this community is small, and so the fixed costs (i.e. the 2 km pipeline) are divided over a small denominator, while they would be the same for a community of 2,000 or 20,000.
Various issues - looks good overall
By East Meets West Foundation Posted on Wed 23 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Why is there no water going to schools? Is there no school here?
What is the proposed water tariff? While it says that they are committed to pay for water, do they know how much it will cost? Does the tariff reflect the need not only for O&M, but also for long term repair and replacement costs?
In addition to existing experience with both water and sanitation in the nearby areas, CARE has considerable experience with rural water supply worldwide, and so they are very knowledgeable on how to do this.
The apparently active support of the local government will expedite the process.
The per capita investment cost of the system appears to be relatively high ($25,000 / 152 = $164 per capita). Why is that? It could perhaps have to do with a remote location of the proposed site, or just the fact that the number of beneficiaries is relatively small (only 152 vs. an often typical rural water system servicing a village of 1,000 – 2,000 people).
Small point - in the short project description it says 150 users. Just below that it says 152.No annual maintenance cost mentioned.
Who will be responsible for doing the maintenance, and how will they be trained and equipped?
No mention of water quality testing – who will do this and how often?
Various issues without response
By East Meets West Foundation Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
While I know that CARE has a generally good reputation in providing rural water supply and sanitation services (e.g. I hired CARE/Indonesia for several contracts under the World Bank financed Water Supply and Sanitation for Low Income Communities in the early-mid '90s (I was the project manager), and they did excellent work.
However, the $164 per capita cost of this proposed system (which is apparently just a pipeline extension of an existing gravity system) is exceedingly high, as I mentioned previously. There was no response from CARE on this point, which was mentioned by several reviewers. There should be some justification of why this is before any decision should be made as to its final rating.
Various issues without response
By CARE Posted on Fri 01 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
Hi all, sorry for the lack of responses. I am trying to be the middleman for CARE Ecuador and simply cannot keep up with the daily comments and questions. Furthermore, we have delays because a) questions & responses must be translated to & from Spanish; and b) the person in the know is actually out in the field working. As you have all noted, CARE does good work. I will try to get you responses before the comment period closes.
Susan
Various issues without response
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
For better clarity, the budget items included in this proposal are broken down. The explanation of the cost per capita is given above - four reasons (The cost per capita is justifiable for the following reasons: 1) the intervention includes technical, social, environmental, organizational and educational efforts to ensure a sustainable system; 2) the distances to Batanes and the roads on which one must travel cause some increase in costs; 3) Compared to last year, construction materials have gone up considerably in price throughout the country because of the generalized inflation; 4) The other factor is that the number of users is quite small (150), since this community is small, and so the fixed costs (i.e. the 2 km pipeline) are divided over a small denominator, while they would be the same for a community of 2,000 or more).
Various issues - looks good overall
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
Q - Why is there no water going to schools? Is there no school here?
A - In Batanes there is a school and the system will indeed provide water to that facility.
Q - What is the proposed water tariff? While it says that they are committed to pay for water, do they know how much it will cost? Does the tariff reflect the need not only for O&M, but also for long term repair and replacement costs?
A - The proposed tariff is the same as for Cañas, which is $2 per 10 cubic meters for one month. The tariff will have to be revised periodically in accordance with the conditions at that moment. The community knows that it must pay a tariff, since this is in line with what is happening in the region. The tariff will cover O&M, in addition a percentage will go to a capital fund for future repairs and upgrades of the system.
Q - In addition to existing experience with both water and sanitation in the nearby areas, CARE has considerable experience with rural water supply worldwide, and so they are very knowledgeable on how to do this.
The apparently active support of the local government will expedite the process.
A - The project has the support of the local government of Arenillas from the signing of the agreement the municipality will contribute its part, in addition it will allocate staff time to support the project.
Q - The per capita investment cost of the system appears to be relatively high ($25,000 / 152 = $164 per capita). Why is that? It could perhaps have to do with a remote location of the proposed site, or just the fact that the number of beneficiaries is relatively small (only 152 vs. an often typical rural water system servicing a village of 1,000 – 2,000 people).
A - The per capita costs are very acceptable if you take into account that the intervention includes not only infrastructure but sanitary education and organization and community empowerment. In addition, the distances involved with the Batanes community justify this cost.
Q - Small point - in the short project description it says 150 users. Just below that it says 152.No annual maintenance cost mentioned.
A - We can define 150 users. The tariff of $2 has been calculated to cover: the cost of the operator, chlorine, maintenance, operation and a percentage to be saved.
Q - Who will be responsible for doing the maintenance, and how will they be trained and equipped?
A - The water board, by hiring the staff necessary for O&M, will be responsible for this activity. CARE will ensure the training of these people.
Q - No mention of water quality testing – who will do this and how often?
A - This is an issue discussed at the country level, since the costs are extremely high and access to qualified laboratories is extremely difficult. Nonetheless, at the community level there will be a daily monitoring of residual chlorine and PH.
Costs and implication of target group
By Protos Posted on Thu 17 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
CARE is working in the water sector in the Sierra of Ecuador since more than 10 years, so next questions might be easy to answer:
1) Can we have some more details on the budget ? Cost p.p. will be 165 USD while the main pipes seem to be already in place (connection to an existing system). Does this price p.p. includes the household standpipe ? If this is the case (and it seems so when looking to the cost p.p.) does it fit with ecuadorian strategy to subsidize household connection ?
2) Can we have some more information about the main system (in Cañas) and their Water Board ? Is that a traditional Junta de Agua or a local branch of the ETAPA-company ? Some info about the performance and viability of the Water Board could be helpfull. How will the Batanes leaders be integrated c.q. informed or cooperate with the Board ?
Re: Costs and implication of target group
By Blue Planet Network Posted on Fri 18 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Following up on Protos' questions:
1. More details on the budget would be welcome.
2. I don't see where in the application it is mentioned that the main pipes are in place. So i assume that the cost includes getting 2km of pipe from the main Canas line to Batanes. Which is the right assumption?
3. A sort of plan on what the activities are going to be would also be welcome. I could then understand some of the design - is there any local storage? Even the time estimate needs some explanation and expansion.
Thanks.
Re: Costs and implication of target group
By El Porvenir Posted on Sat 19 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Susan,
I concur with the request for the budget. I am a numbers person, I like to see the numbers. Thanks,
Rob
Re: Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
The Finance Department is reviewing the detailed budget. I will send it to you as soon as possible (hopefully tomorrow afternoon).
The municipality of Arenillas has a study of the potable water supply system for the Cañas-El Triunfo-Batanes region.
During the past 8 months, CARE implemented the Cañas part of the project with support from the Coca-Cola Foundation; in addition, with USAID funds, other organization is currently working in El Triunfo; thus the part corresponding to Batanes still needs to be completed, which is the motive for this proposal.
According to the study, from the storage tank built in the Cañas area which has sufficient capacity, a network would be connected to channel the water to the Batanes community, a distance of about 2,000 meters. In addition, the project includes installing the necessary branches within the community and the household connections.
The methodology proposed by CARE includes promoting community participation from the beginning in the following ways: unskilled labor, transporting and carrying materials, lodging and meals for teachers, a supply of local materials and the purchase of the meters. The practice in Ecuador is not necessary to subsidize the household connection; in this project, the community will provide the individual water meters and the project will provide the pipes.
Re: Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
At the moment, the Potable Water Administration Board of the Cañas system is established, following the guidelines of the country’s Law of Rural Water Boards, and the Cañas Board has a set of by-laws that allow the Board members and the users to properly exercise their rights and responsibilities.
The Board, under these conditions, is able to administrate, operate and maintain its system; in addition, a tariff has been set for monthly consumption that will ensure the financial sustainability of the system. The municipality of Arenillas is committed to providing constant monitoring of the system.
The main objective of the Social Organization and Promotion component, which will be implemented by CARE, will be to facilitate agreements among the residents of Cañas, Batanes and El Triunfo, in order to create one single Water Board for the system with a regional viewpoint.
In the short term, we hope to create a regional Water Board, in which users from the three communities will have the same rights and responsibilities.
Although this process could require a number of meetings for discussion and reaching agreements, we feel that it will be possible, since there have already been some conversations in this regard and especially because the flow volume at the source is sufficient and the treatment plant was designed with a regional system in mind.
Re: Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Tue 29 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
1. More details on the budget would be welcome.
The Finance Department is reviewing the detailed budget. I will send it to you as soon as possible (hopefully tomorrow afternoon).
2. I don't see where in the application it is mentioned that the main pipes are in place. So i assume that the cost includes getting 2km of pipe from the main Canas line to Batanes. Which is the right assumption?
The pipes between the water intake site and the treatment plant are already in place, in addition the intake and the treatment plant are completed and operating.
Under these conditions, the Batanes system will connect with the reserve tank through a length of 2 km of pipe to the community, so your assumption is correct.
In addition, the project includes the necessary branches within the community and the home connections.
3. A sort of plan on what the activities are going to be would also be welcome. I could then understand some of the design - is there any local storage? Even the time estimate needs some explanation and expansion.
CARE’s methodological proposal includes linking the technical activities and the organization-promotion and sanitary and environmental education efforts.
In this scenario, the minimum time for intervention in the communities is that which we proposed, that is five months. It is expected that by the end of the process, the communities themselves will be capable of operating, maintaining and administering their systems, in this case by establishing basic agreements.
The major elements of each of the three components are the following:
Organization and Promotion:
The community agreement will be signed, including a clear description of the contributions to be made by each community.
Work sessions will be organized with community participation for activities like transporting materials, digging ditches, and others.
Capacity-building will be done in the areas of leadership, parliamentary procedure, conflict resolution, and others.
Training will be provided in warehouse management, and administrative and accounting procedures.
Critical areas vulnerable to the effects of flooding will be identified.
Impact-mitigation efforts
Reforesting water sources
Sanitary and Environmental Education:
The project will work with adults and children from the communities on some issues that need to be reinforced at the community level:
Personal hygiene (washing hands)
Hygiene in the household and surroundings
Preventing water-borne diseases
The water cycle in nature
Protecting micro-watersheds
Preventative measures in response to the region’s rainfall
Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Wed 30 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Just received budget from CARE ECUADOR:
BATANES ROJECT Jul-08
DESCRIPTION Total
PERSONNEL COST 10.586
PROFESSIONAL SERVICES 8
EQUIPMENT PURCHASES (EXPENSED) 35
MATERIALS, SERVICES & CONSUMABLE 11.137
TRAVEL AND TRANSPORTATION 4.825
OCCUPANCY 191
FINANCING/DEPRECIATION/MISCELL 10
GRANTS/SUBGRANTS/SEED CAPITAL -
CARE HQ ADMINISTRATIVE & TECHNICAL SUPPORT 2.411
TOTAL 29.203
Costs and implication of target group
By Agua Para La Salud (APLS) Posted on Wed 30 Jul 2008, almost 18 years ago
Would you be able to supply us with more detail on the personnel costs ( construction labor), materials costs (tubing costs), and design and hydraulics of the main pipe line.
Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
From CARE Ecuador - Following you will find detailed budget with the total cost of the construction labor and a total cost of the materials-regretably at this stage we don't have the detailed amount of each material for this reason we can’t provide you with the cost of the tubing. In regards to the design and hydraulics of the main pipe line, the Municipality of Arenillas has them, as they are in charge of preparing them-this issue will be covered by the Municipality and not by the donor. In any case, if the donor needs the design and hydraulics of the main pipe line, we can ask the Municipality to send them to us, but it will take time (it is impossible to have them here by Monday).
BUDGET FOR BATANES PROJECT
ITEM Unit Quantity Unit amount Total amount
MATERIALS & CONSTRUCTION LABOR Water & Sanitation
Materials
Global
1
7.500,00
7.500,00
Construction labor
Global
1
2.500,00
2.500,00
Educational support material for water and sanitation
Global
500,00
Workshops on Sanitary and environmental education
Global
336,54
Workshops on Community promotion and organization
Global
544,76
Sub Total Materials & Construction labor
11.381,29
PERSONNEL COSTS
Unit
Quantity
Cost/month
Total Cost
National Coordinator of Water & Sanitation (10%)
Month
0,5
4.377,42
2.188,71
Especialista Técnico en Organización, Promoción y Educación Sanitaria (30%)
Technical Specialist on Organization, promotion and sanitary education
Month
1,5
2.529,80
3.794,69
Civil Engineer (30%)
Month
1,5
2.529,80
3.794,69
Programs Assistant (10%)
Month
0,5
1.616,06
808,03
Total Personnel
10.586,13
MOBILIZATION
Unit
Number
Unit amount
Total amount
Airplane tickets (Quito - Machala)
U
2
158,50
317,01
Manteinance and gasoline of 1 vehicle
Month
5
450,00
2.250,00
Total Mobilization
2.567,01
FOOD & LODGING
Unit
Number
Unit amount
Total amount
Hotel expenses
Day
10
30,00
300,00
Per diem
Día
100
19,58
1.957,75
Total Food and Lodging
2.257,75
TOTAL
26.792,18
CARE HQ Adminstrative and Technical Support
2.411,30
TOTAL GENERAL
29.203,47
Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
From CARE Ecuador - Following you will find detailed budget in which they will be able to see the total cost of the construction labor and a total cost of the materials-regretably at this stage we don’t have the detailed amount of each material for this reason we can’t provide you with the cost of the tubing. In regards to the design and hydraulics of the main pipe line, the Municipality of Arenillas has them, as they are in charge of preparing them-this issue will be covered by the Municipality and not by the donor. In any case, if the donor needs the design and hydraulics of the main pipe line, we can ask the Municipality to send them to us, but it will take time (it is impossible to have them here by Monday).
BUDGET FOR BATANES PROJECT
ITEM Unit Quantity Unit amount Total amount
MATERIALS & CONSTRUCTION LABOR
Water & Sanitation
Materials
Global 1 7.500,00 7.500,00
Construction labor
Global 1 2.500,00 2.500,00
Educational support material for water and sanitation
Global 500,00
Workshops on Sanitary and environmental education
Global 336,54
Workshops on Community promotion and organization
Global 544,76
Sub Total Materials & Construction labor 11.381,29
PERSONNEL COSTS Unit Quantity Cost/month Total Cost
National Coord. of Water & Sanitation (10%) Month 0,5 4.377,42 2.188,71
Especialista Técnico en Organización, Promoción y Educación Sanitaria (30%)
Technical Specialist on Organization, promotion and sanitary education
Month 1,5 2.529,80 3.794,69
Civil Engineer (30%) Month 1,5 2.529,80 3.794,69
Programs Assistant (10%) Month 0,5 1.616,06 808,03
Total Personnel 10.586,13
MOBILIZATION Unit Number Unit amount Total amount
Airplane tickets (Quito - Machala) U 2 158,50 317,01
Manteinance and gasoline of 1 vehicle Month 5 450,00 2.250,00
Total Mobilization 2.567,01
FOOD & LODGING Unit Number Unit amount Total amount
Hotel expenses Day 10 30,00 300,00
Per diem Día 100 19,58 1.957,75
Total Food and Lodging 2.257,75
TOTAL 26.792,18
CARE HQ Adminstrative and Technical Support 2.411,30
TOTAL GENERAL 29.203,47
Costs and implication of target group
By Peer Water Exchange Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
Thanks so much for this. PWX features need to be better explained and advertised. You can add in documents to the application, while it is not possible to edit the text, applicants can add in photos and documents at will.
With this budget are you still looking for 25k in funding or the new larger amount?
Costs and implication of target group
By CARE Posted on Sat 02 Aug 2008, almost 18 years ago
Rajesh - I did attach a document, just wasn't sure reviewers would know to look there so I wanted to put the details in the reply as well. Sure, we'll ask for the full amount. When we applied this was in concept note stage so the amount was an estimate. Thanks, Susan
Application Summary
| Applicant | : | CARE |
| Status | : | rejected |
| Country | : | ECUADOR Map |